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The Dogs of War are Unleashed in Brazil PDF Print E-mail
Written by John Fitzpatrick   
Saturday, 20 May 2006

Scores of dead Paulistas are being buried in unmarked gravesThe outburst of violence which broke out in São Paulo on May 12 and led to the death of over 160 people within a week highlighted the feebleness of the Brazilian state and its political leadership. Not a single politician at federal, state or municipal level stepped forward to confront this blatant attack by the PCC criminal organization. Not one politician gave comfort or courage to the frightened people of São Paulo.

While the security forces took the brunt of the casualties, with around 40 deaths, innocent civilians were also killed as the gangs attacked soft targets like buses, metro stations and banks. After the initial shock, the police unleashed the dogs of war and took a savage revenge.

Just as the politicians failed to cope with the crisis so they have failed to cope with the after-effects and it is the inhabitants of the favelas - the innocent as well as guilty - who are paying the price.

The state governor, Claudio Lembo, denied that the police were carrying out summary killings and said every death would be investigated. "Nothing like that is happening at all. The word of the people who say this is not worth that of the police as a whole. All these deaths occurred in battles. The strangest things happen in São Paulo during the night," he said.

It is impossible to accept comments like this seriously. Anyone who lives here knows that, even in normal circumstances, the Brazilian police shoot first and ask questions later. Going on the rampage would be their natural response to the loss of so many of their colleagues.

Body Count

It is not only human rights activists who are complaining about what is happening. The Estado de S. Paulo newspaper had an editorial on May 18 in which it said the violence of the attacks had justified the police response.

Two days later, when it was obvious that the police were overreacting, the paper published another editorial saying public support for the police should not be unconditional and only legitimate self-defense could justify police killing.

The paper also ran a long story on May 20 under the headline "The question: how many innocent deaths" in which it pointed out that 85 bodies had been delivered to city morgues. Of these, 17 had not been identified and would be buried as unknown vagrants.

The paper said some relatives had not claimed the bodies as they were afraid they would become targets for the police. Some of the bodies are reported to have shown signs of being shot in the head, heart and back, at close range 

A doctor in one hospital was quoted as saying that a policeman had told him on Wednesday evening that the police were about to invade a favela and that he would be back later "and bring lots of dead people for you".

Lula Turns His Back on the Victims...

Other politicians kept a low profile. President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, whose home base is São Paulo, kept away. He merely offered to provide federal forces and sent the justice minister to talk to Lembo. A couple of days later Lula tried to pin the blame on previous governments, saying that if some of the gangster had been educated properly they would not have turned to crime.

Lula did not attend any of the funerals of the murdered policemen nor did he visit any of the places where violence occurred. Nor did he set foot in a favela to show some solidarity with the people living there whose lives are in the hands of murdering drugs traffickers and vengeful policemen.

Constitutionally, Lula could justify this hands-off approach by pointing out that the state government and not the federal government is responsible for security. However, his natural constituency consists of those at the bottom end of society and he has a moral duty to look after them, even if only through a symbolic visit. Instead, he was traveling all over the country telling crowds how marvelous he and his government were

Geraldo Alckmin, who stood down as state governor recently to run for the presidency and handed power over to Lembo, also kept quiet, knowing that security has always been the main weak point in his track record. Not only is São Paulo one of the most violent places on earth but its prisons are practically run by the inmates and riots and rebellions are routine.

The fact that the latest violence was coordinated from within the prisons shows this clearly. One of the few concrete moves the authorities have taken has been to block cellular phones frequencies around the prisons. This is unlikely to solve the problem in the long term since the prison service is inefficient and the police service corrupt.

The PCC launched the attack because it had learned of imminent police action against its leaders from a conversation of top security officials which had been taped secretly. This tape was made by a worker who said he had been asked to do so by lawyers acting for gang members who had paid him 200 reais - about US$ 100.

...as do Alckmin and Serra

The other heavyweight São Paulo politician, José Serra, was in the United States during the violence as was former President Fernando Henrique Cardoso. Like Alckmin, Serra gave up his post (as mayor of São Paulo) to contest the state governorship election in October.

Like Alckmin, he handed over power to his deputy, an unknown lightweight called Gilberto Kassab. While the city was griped by violence and fear on Monday May 15, with schools, universities, shops, factories and offices closing down, Kassab was nowhere to be seen.

Politicians in other states and big cities also kept quiet since they knew that violence like this can easily spread and they did not want to raise the pitch.

As usual, the people were left to defend themselves. The middle classes retreated to their high-rise apartments with private security at the entrances and the upper classes to their barricaded houses and mansions. The poorer classes locked their doors and waited for the fire next time.

The failure of the state to reassure the population is a victory for the criminals. Despite their losses, they will regroup and come back. We can be sure of one thing - this was not a one-off affair.

John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his site www.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it .

© John Fitzpatrick 2006

Comments (102)Add Comment
Jesus
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 12:20:04
It's a miracle that anyone is still alive in Brazil from the sound of it.
Re:
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 12:52:27
:It's a miracle that anyone is still alive in Brazil from the sound of it."

Brazil is much bigger than Sao Paulo or even bigger than the whole area affected by the occurrence.

Anyway, the situation in Sao Paulo is much serious than someone can convey at the moment. I am sure that there are things happening that we do not know behind the curtains involving the criminals and state officials.

I agree with John, Lula is showing modest reaction or no genuine indignation for the whole situation in our big cities. To say that the organized crime is a serious issue in Brazil is now known to be an understatement. It is a social calamity.


RE: Jesus
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 13:18:08
Quote:

"It's a miracle that anyone is still alive in Brazil from the sound of it."


Reply:

The law enforcement in Brazil did not do that bad from my point of view, that is given some of the archaic six-shooters some of them are issued in Sao Paulo state (I realize many officers had more advanced weaponry) and the fact that they apparently had no ground troop help from the federal military forces (unlike LA by the United States Marine Corps in the LA riots - even with an LA police force that has far more assets than the Sao Paulo police force).

160 deaths over several days period in a city of something like 10 or 18 million people, can be kept in better context, casualties that is, by comparing it to what the fall smaller city of New York took in casualties in the 9-11 attacks. Both were arguably orginized terrorist strikes. New York city however took thousands of deaths in one day - and one that targeted primarily civilians not the New York police force.

Unlike New York City or the entire United States country for that matter, Sao Paulo's and Brazil's terrorists are isolated in specific geographical locations in Brazil, wherein they can be qauatered, seiged, and devoured if the will and resources are put into it. New York and the United States on the other hand have a suicidal enemy which is scattered in a whole host of places all over the globe.

But for Brazil to not give birth to new generation of "terrorists" a hard hand just in itself will not do. Brazil must make a real and sincere effort to share wealth, prosperity, and give genuine respect and esteem to those in the favelas. Or else greed and snobbishness will create future fighting gang members (or "terrorists) in the favelas.

That's how I see it at least. [shrugs]
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 13:19:37
Unfortunately, organized crime is just that organized. While the police pay so little they cannot get anybody with any organizational skills. If Brasil wants to stop this problem some group needs to stand up and demand that politicians and government workers who sit on thier ass and do nothing but collect a retirement check after 10 years earn less and give some of that to hiring skilled and honest people for the police and jail guards. I mean R200, to bribe a jail guard, jesus christ, you know that guy wasn't paid enough to care about losing his job. Too bad the gangs didn't target the politicians.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 15:02:17
Truly is sad when Lula has not been seen to say little to nothing about this situation. And truly shows his character when he didn't even attend any police funerals, etc.

I find it ironic that Serra and Cardoso were both in the U.S. at the time of the attacks....hmmm, where do you think they believe its safer?? The U.S. or Sao Paulo?

As far as comparing this situation with 9-11, it couldn't be more different, and the PCC is not a group of terrorists, they're organized crime...period. And they're brazilians. You can rest assured of one thing, not ALL the attacks were done by the PCC, they're were many individuals, or groups, that took advantage of the situation and were revolting against the reality here in brazil. This is civil unrest, not a terrorist attack. 9-11 was a result of america's foreign policy, principally its undying support for israel and was carried out by people from the other side of the globe, not by it's own citizens that are living in miserable conditions and numbers reaching 30-40 million living on less than 2 dollars per day.

Organized crime is an intrigal part of the interworkings of brazilian society, the government, the police forces, the military.

Imagine if something like this happened by organized crime in the states....everyone knows what would happen, those responsible would be in prisons, and not in prisons where the inmates are in charge, or they would be dead....period. A state, or a country, has to draw the line and show exactly who is running things....brazil certainly has done nothing of the sort, they have strengthened the position of the PCC, by actually negotiating with them.....it's so absurd it escapes words.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 15:36:48
Quote:

"As far as comparing this situation with 9-11, it couldn't be more different, and the PCC is not a group of terrorists, they're organized crime...period. And they're brazilians. You can rest assured of one thing, not ALL the attacks were done by the PCC, they're were many individuals, or groups, that took advantage of the situation and were revolting against the reality here in brazil. This is civil unrest, not a terrorist attack. 9-11 was a result of america's foreign policy, principally its undying support for israel and was carried out by people from the other side of the globe, not by it's own citizens that are living in miserable conditions and numbers reaching 30-40 million living on less than 2 dollars per day."


Reply:

There are a number of US born citizenry in the US listed as terrorist. And most of them are not Islamic nor dark people. When I was in the service guarding nuclear weapons one of the listed terrorist orginization we to be aware had the potential desire to aquire or steal a nuclear weapon was the KKK. - a white supremacist orginization.

Many "terrorist" orginizations are involved in illegal activities we would call "crime," or even to the extent we would call "orginized crime."

The word "terrorist" is really just a play on words. The official US State's definition of terrorism aside, anyone or group that inflicts *terror* to accomplish its goal or further its cause or want, is just a "terrorist."

Therefore, if the citizens of Sao Paulo were terrorized, by the PCC in their recent attack, if the Brazilian stock market and value of the Brazilian real, took a decline do to a shock of fear sent in investors, I think one can justly apply the term "terrorists" to the PCC.

But then that's just my feelings on the matter. But I feel confident in saying that if gang in the US pulled what the PCC just recently did, with in short order the US Government would have elevated them from "orginized crime" category to "terrorist orginization." Then the US Government would - back by the law and homeland security - handle them in such manner. Moving to decapitate the beast and send dejection into its ranks and all its sympathizers. (Gitmo [Guantanamo Bay] is one of the examples of a form of spreading dejection)
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 16:02:41
well, homegrown terrorists were not responsible for 9-11. Quite different that what happened in sao paulo.
Yes, terrorism is correct
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 16:15:50
What happened in Sao Paulo can be called an act of terrorism even considering a Brazilian criminal organization such as PCC.

PCC is a terrorist group in the sense that they caused terror and public harm. The city was terrorized.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.Ӕ

see the definition at Dictionary.com

...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 16:32:55
ok, so what happened in sao paulo and what happened in new york are along the same lines...right dickhead?
KKK stealing a nuke
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 16:59:17
Yeah f**king right the KKK was on the list of groups who would steal a nuke. Get a grip man. I am so sick of this know-nothing dumbass on this site who structures all of his post like this:

quote: ""

reply: "blah,blah, blerK"

etc., and says the dumbest s**t possible while trying to sound smart. He writes pretentiously while dancing around a bulls**t point that could be summed up in one to two sentences.

And his points are either overly politicallty correct and obvious, or so misguided and fraudulent that it's obvious he makes things up.

The KKK will be on a nuclear watchdog list the day the US gov't decides that white cloaks , pointy hats and outdated propaganda are radioactive, dumbass.
Wrong targets
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 17:02:09
It is unfortunate that those most responsible(high govt officials) don't pay a price in blood (or a the very least their cushy jobs). Unfortunately, the thieving scum get away clean every time.
9/11 - not homegrown??
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 17:31:25
"well, homegrown terrorists were not responsible for 9-11."

Unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth. The "terrorists" who perpetrated the atrocities of 9/11 were about as homegrown as it gets. One was born and raised in Conn. and the other in Wyoming I believe. Foreign terrorists had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Until Americans come to terms with that, the US will continue on its course to complete and utter self-destruction.
Not terrorism
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 17:51:45
What happened in Brazil has nothing to do with terrorism. If criminals were wanting to create a caos atmosphere they wouldnt have burnt busses without people on them, or only killed government workers. No random bombs are restaurants or men exploding themselves.

If the Sao Paulo population got worried, that was because of the Police Force killing everyone that got in their sight, now thats terrorism. The Army offered help, if the incompetent governor of Sao Paulo had accepted, the police wouldn't have gone to the streets practicing genocide.

These are the a*****es that the ignorant population of Brazil elected, but you really have to think you can blame them, look at the options and you will see.

--
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 17:57:25
quote:

"Foreign terrorists had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11."

Really?? Since when did Saudia Arabia become a state??

for the love of christ!
Oh you\'re one of those . .
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:05:34
Oh you're one of those idiots that still buys the official story on 9/11 . . . That explains a lot!

Yeah I think I could pilot a 757 into the Pentagon at 500 MPH and only 2 ft. off the ground after having only flight simulator training as well. Yeah those morons never actually flew a 757 - NOT ONE OF THEM. But you go on believing they became Chuck f**king Yeager for one incredible minute. All that despite their flight trainers declaring them incompetent to fly a f**king Cessna let alone a jumbo jet. Yeah - for the love of christ!!!
re;9/11 not homegrown
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:07:42
keep smoking weed and listening to all the conspiracy theorists....mmm'k??

"Some of the terrorists did not seem to match the profiles of past suicide terrorists as young, poor, and uneducated. However the "muscle" hijackers, as opposed to the pilots, were between 20 and 28 years old and most were unmarried and without familial attachments. Fifteen came from Saudi Arabia. The remaining four came from Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Lebanon. According to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, this distribution reflects the proportions of trainees at al-Qaeda camps and the relative ease of obtaining U.S. visas for Saudi citizens."

quote:

The hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 11 were reported to be:

Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Mohammed Atta (Egyptian)
Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian)
Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian)
Mohammed Atta is believed to have flown Flight 11 into the North Tower of the World Trade Center.
Aboard United Airlines Flight 175 the hijackers were reported to be:

Marwan al-Shehhi (Emirati)
Fayez Banihammad (Emirati)
Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian)
Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian)
Marwan al-Shehhi is believed to have flown Flight 175 into the South Tower.
The hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 77 were reported to be:

Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian)
Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian)
Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian)
Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian)
Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian)
Hani Hanjour is believed to have flown Flight 77 into the Pentagon.
The hijackers aboard United Airlines Flight 93 were reported to be:

Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian)
Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian)
Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese)
Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian)
Ziad Jarrah is believed to have crashed Flight 93 into the Pennsylvania countryside to prevent or end an assault by the passengers.
Ahmed al-Ghamdi, Saeed al-Ghamdi, Hamza al-Ghamdi, and Ahmad al-Haznawi came from three neighboring towns and belonged to the same tribe. Wail al-Shehri was Waleed al-Shehri's older brothers. Salem al-Hazmi was a younger brother of Nawaf al-Hazmi."


NONE of the terrorists...I repeat....NONE, were born in the U.S.

As soon as you get a grip on reality, things become a little clearer. Try living in reality a little.

I suppose you're one of those that think the Neil Armstrong moonwalk was a big hoax as well...

...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:10:27
Funny - the only one not living in reality is you. Living in DENIAL makes things easier for your weak mind I'm sure. Have fun with that.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:15:49
well, ok tough guy, show us these guys from Connecticut and Wyoming....LMAO!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:16:37
think ones name was Billy Joe and the other Bubba....LMAO!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:19:58
Actually one was born in Nebraska but grew up in Wyoming and the other in Conn. As you f**king idiots obviously don't have any idea who I could possibly be talking about it really doesn't matter. Go on about your lives overshadowed by ignorance. After all - they say it's bliss. . .
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:25:55
well, show us proof?? Or is this just what you heard on Alex Jones radio....wow, pretty easily manipulated aren't ya?

I'm waiting...where are these home-grown boys?? Show me something other than lip-service.....pleeeeease!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:35:51
thought as much...another idiot product of Alex Jones and 9/11 loose change.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:37:52
You really are that retarded aren't you?? No idea who I could be talking about? It's really a moot point if you're discussing a subject like this with a mental dwarf like yourself.

In that same vein maybe you could show me proof that aeronautical perfection like that diplayed on 9/11 is possible with flight simulator training only. Notice you didn't address that - only my "weed smoking". That kind of label makes your narrow, weak mind comfortable - that's ok, it's the hallmark of an American loser. You redneck, backwoods Bushies are losing ground fast and increasingly more Americans are not buying into this nonsensical story they keep selling - all except for the morons who ate paint as children. The burden of proof is just as much on you morons these days. I bet you're one of those American dimwits who thinks the war in Iraq is about "democracy" and killing civilian children is cool. God I am so happy I don't have to be surrounded by dips**t Americans like you anymore . . .

Speaking of easily manipulated - funny coming from someone who takes the word of a sociopath and draft dodger. No make that 2 sociopaths and draft dodgers. There's a big clue for you retard. . . think you can figure it out now? Doubt it! LOL!!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:40:02
well....I'm still waiting...more lip service eh??

Show us these home-grown boys??? Really, the american people would like to know!!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:40:46
Thought so - another idiot product of the Republican party . . .
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:41:15
Please so you are talking about dick and bush, although I know they are actually both a*****es please, please outline your whole conspiracy theory. Please use concrete examples and give proof that they were behind the whole thing. Please tell us how they have kept this under wraps when they have not been able to keep the simplest s**t from leaking out of the white house. We want to know the details, who they had implement it, how they had meetings to coordinate it beforehand. We would really like to know how two guys run one of the most incompetant white houses in history could have pulled this off without a hitch and without anyone finding out yet.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:43:03
listen bozo, the U.S. gov't. very well knows more than its telling. But if you think 9/11 was designed, condoned, or permitted, those attacks to happen, you need some serious psychology help. I've looked into the issue at length, and as I stated, they know more than they've told, but they certainly didn't have a hand in it.

Now you go on believing that. The moonwalk was a farce too...we've actually never been there.....LOL.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:43:11
I bet you wait a lot in life. Waited and are probably still waiting to get laid. Waiting to say you have any friends and waiting for your brainstem to begin growing. If it hasn't yet, it never will. Later looser!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:47:32
Bozo - did you really write that?? BOZO? Ok old timer. Have yourself a nice warm glass of milk and then off to bed with you.

Do I need some serious psychology help - like with my homework? Oh and since a mental giant like yourself has looked into it then it must be true. LMAO!!!! All hail the 9/11 authority who has "looked into the issue at length". ROTFL!!! What is your determination Mr. President?? Thanks for that one!!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:51:41
Ok well you keep on typing furiously. You gave me something to laugh at for the rest of the night so I will leave it at that. I'm going to turn the computer off and won't even bother reading your next dull post - "more lip service, etc . . " ZZZZZZZZ

I'm going to go out and enjoy myself tonight. Have fun with your internet porn and the 2 other losers stuck in here conversing with idiots like you because they repulse the opposite sex. LOL!!
BOZO . . . Love it!!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:52:47
well...you have yet to show us ANYTHING...not one shred of anything!!

We're still waiting.....and we'll continue to wait...you're full of hot air and conspiracy theories.

If you post again, show us something we can hang our hat on besides your bulls**t....please!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 18:56:43
where are you at loser?? The U.S.?? LOL...good luck on your night out tonight...you'll need it!!

I'm here, in brazil, with my 23 year old brazilian girlfriend that has tits and ass like you've only seen in magazines....LOL!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:00:47
Conspiracy theory boy, 23 year old girlfriend what are you like 50? I live in brasil and haven't gone out with a girl over 20.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:03:49
I'm going to go out to see you later Consipiracy Theory Boy. And Bozo is a great word, it's timeless retard. And no I'm not the one who wrote it originally. But you are a BOZO if you don't give us any proof.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:06:52
I'm the one who wrote bozo...and obviously, it was correctly used to describe that idiot....gotta love these conspiracy theorists!
Re: ok, so what happened in sao paulo an
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:06:53
Incredible how this site is visited by too many under-educated commentators!

I will post again:

Terrorism.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.Ӕ - Dictionary.com

Obviously, the two events, 9/11 and PCC terrorism are different. So was the Okalahoma bombing but that was also an act of terrorism.

And get a grip of yourself, learn how to be cool.

Deve ser Paulista!

...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:11:55
please, teach us how to be cool....would we have to take a class in bus-burning?
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:23:26
Quote:

"Yeah f**king right the KKK was on the list of groups who would steal a nuke. Get a grip man. I am so sick of this know-nothing dumbass on this site who structures all of his post like this:

quote: ""

reply: "blah,blah, blerK"

etc., and says the dumbest s**t possible while trying to sound smart. He writes pretentiously while dancing around a bulls**t point that could be summed up in one to two sentences.

And his points are either overly politicallty correct and obvious, or so misguided and fraudulent that it's obvious he makes things up.

The KKK will be on a nuclear watchdog list the day the US gov't decides that white cloaks , pointy hats and outdated propaganda are radioactive, dumbass."


Reply:

The humor in all this is that anyone that has served in the United States Marine Coprs "Security Forces" MOS... are well aware that what I'm stateing is the truth.

In case you are unaware, Security Forces MOS primary mission is the protection of nuclear weapons. Hence the deployment - or once deploment of Marines aboard such naval ships as air craft carriers and battle ships. The only dumbass is you. The KKK is listed as "An enemy of the United States Government."

Quite a number of white supremacist orginizations have been involved in such activities as bank robbery and the murder of US federal agents.

Unlike many MOS in the Marine Corps, the Security Forces MOS requieres its Marines to shoot through its own members if necassary (in other words if a "tango" has a gun pointed to a sentry's head while standing behind him), that is in protection of a nuclear weapon from theft. Security Forces is also required (at land facilities) to call in air strikes on their own position if their compound is over-run and theft of a weapon likely.

The United States Government does *not* discount white supremacist orginization from potentially seeking or attempting to steal by force a nuclear weapon (you are probably under the ignorant assumption that all nuclear weapons the US possess are the large ones in ground silos). Nor does the United States Government take lightly the security of those weapons.

Any naval veteran that has served on such ships as air craft carriers (I myself served on a battle ship but not an air craft carrier) will be familiar with the "exclusion areas" Marines at time set up.

But since you claim to be so knowledgable about security issues related to the nuclear weapons facilities I'm sure you can present us with an articulate post as to how security operations run, and the relative "lax" nature you suppose that field to be.

By the way, in a failure to stop shooting of a "tango," as prescribed in the norms of Marine Corps Security Forces of the early 1990's, you can tell me where those shots lie and how they differ from a "double tap"?
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:28:33
please, the KKK certainly isn't much of a viable group these days. Certainly not like they were 30-40 years ago. Even they're not that stupid to try and steal a nuclear bomb. What would they do with it first of all?? It's not like the U.S. has an entire city filled with blacks only.
kkk terrorists
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:29:32
I'm not sure why this guy jumped on that point withough at least doing a little internet research first. Obvioiusly a white supremacist like timothy mcvey would have love to get his hands on a nuke. There is a lot of BS on this sight but what you stated sounds logical to me. And if I wasn't so lazy myself I would try to find out what groups the US government classifies as terrorist. I know it classifies the rebel groups in colombia as terrorist.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:32:44
Also the guy wasn't trying to say what the kkk would do with a nuke just proving the defenition of terrorist. f**k if I know what they would have done with it, used it as a giant dildo?
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:34:03
LOL
Please, Please!!!
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:45:51
Can you at least give us the names of these guys from Wyoming and Connecticut? I'd really be interested in hearing more about this!
what it is all about
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 19:52:29
For those of you out there that read and understand portuguese this is what it is all about.


Os autores do espetáculo

Olavo de Carvalho
Jornal do Brasil, 18 de maio de 2006



Não tenho razões para gostar do sr. Cláudio Lembo. No dia em que lhe fui apresentado – um encontro a que compareci na esperança vã de obter seu apoio para projetos culturais que teriam podido, talvez, desviar um pouco o Brasil do rumo de uma tragédia anunciada --, ele aproveitou a ocasião para fazer bonito ante uns esquerdinhas presentes, rotulando-me ultradireitista e recomendando-me a leitura da Bíblia para aplacar meus maus instintos políticos. Nada respondi. Limitei-me a tirar do bolso o velho exemplar do Novo Testamento e dos Salmos que me acompanha há anos, para mostrar que não tinha lições de religião a receber de um deplorável puxa-saco de seus próprios detratores.

No entanto, não posso assistir calado ao esforço geral da mídia para lançar sobre ele a culpa integral da desgraça ocorrida em São Paulo. Não se trata apenas de injustiça. É uma operação diversionista, calculada para ocultar da opinião pública os verdadeiros agentes causadores do episódio, cujas identidades, sem isso, saltariam aos olhos de todos, por ser demasiado óbvias. Para enxergá-las, basta juntar os fatos:

1º. Os bandidos rebelados confessaram ter recebido ajuda e treinamento do MST, entidade estreitamente associada à camarilha petista dominante e que por sua vez recebeu as mesmas coisas de outra organização amiga do governo, a narcoguerrilha colombiana.

2º. O presidente da República é pessoalmente responsável pela presença, nas ruas, dos doze mil delinqüentes que espalharam o terror e a morte entre a população paulista. Não tem sentido acusar o governo estadual de estar despreparado para a situação e ao mesmo tempo inocentar o governo federal que a gerou. Ao soltar os bandidos, sabendo que mantinham contato telefônico com seus chefes presos e que estavam preparados para ações terroristas de grande porte, a Presidência da República petista ateou fogo num Estado da Federação e ainda se aproveita das chamas para queimar nelas a reputação de um miúdo adversário local.

3º. É absolutamente inconcebível que uma operação de guerra de proporções colossais, envolvendo três entidades subversivas da importância do PCC, do MST e das Farc, fosse preparada sem que alguma notícia a respeito chegasse à coordenação estratégica da esquerda continental, o Foro de São Paulo, cujo fundador e presidente crônico, em licença temporária, é mais conhecido hoje em dia como presidente do Brasil mas jamais cessou de trabalhar por essa organização.

Como a única ocupação da mídia chique deste país, há quinze anos, tem sido ocultar ou minimizar a realidade para manter o povo sob o controle da gangue esquerdista a despeito de todas as intrigas internas que a dividem, a missão foi cumprida mais uma vez. Mas agora a realidade é grande e sangrenta demais para desaparecer por artes mágicas de copy-desk. Um ataque assassino de características nitidamente insurrecionais foi desencadeado com a cumplicidade direta ou indireta da Presidência da República, se não sob a sua orientação. Não há, no fundo, quem não saiba disso. Mesmo o cérebro de uma população entorpecida por décadas de “revolução cultural” não consegue cegar-se de todo para tamanha obviedade.

Isso não quer dizer, é claro, que o conhecimento público dos fatos trará algum dano a seus autores. Num país civilizado, qualquer ligação mesmo remota de um presidente da República com os autores daquela barbaridade implicaria sua imediata remoção do cargo e sua responsabilização penal. Mas o Brasil já foi domado e adestrado para responder com sorrisos de adulação a todos os insultos e agressões que venham de fonte ideologicamente aprovada. O país vai curvar-se, com servilismo boçal, a mais esta imposição cínica das elites iluminadas que o guiam infalivelmente para o abismo.

Quanto ao sr. Lembo, está sendo feito de bode expiatório porque tem a sonsice e até o physique de rôle apropriados para isso. Não entende o que se passa, nem sabe a quem serve com o grotesco espetáculo da sua impotência. É um bobo, mas não é culpado senão disso.

Insane
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 20:37:53
This is insanity... When is someone going to stand up for the people of Sao Paulo??!!?? As stated in the article, Sao Paulo is one of the most violent places in the world, and its security has always been its weakest point... I have experienced this through the close friends i have that are from this area of Brasil, as well as my own experience in the country... When is this going to change? How is it going to change? The only way i can see is for SOMEONE, EVERYONE to take the stance that this is UNACCEPTABLE... Know i more than realize that this is an almost impossible act to fully commit, however posting out positions, giving our emotionals, spiritual etc support is not merely enough... Come on people let do something for our FELLOW AMERICAN'S... This effects us too!!!
re:insane
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 21:04:38
I think you are going though a kind of culture shock. realizing the rest of the world does not have the organizational skills of the place you are from. What is there to do? If Brazilians don't organize to solve the problem. Calling everybody americans and appealing to solidarity won't work. Many Brazilians will get upset that you do. You can't let it bother you, or even try to figure it out. Brazil has to figure it out or choose not to figure it out, what ever, but if you judge the fact that nothing is being done by logical and rational standards you will drive yourself insane.
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-20 23:53:23
Checking the internet, it appears the US State Department is not listing the KKK or white supremacist orginistaions on their list of terrorist orginizations. However it also appears the State Department and FBI have reshaped some of their former anti and counter terrorist structures at various time not excluding the 9-11 attacks.

So as of 1990 and 1993 - during those time periods in Marine Security Forces - I stand by my statement and words that the KKK and other white supremacist orginizations were listed (as we taught in Security Forces school at least) as a terrorist orginization and an "enemy of the United States Government."

In fact MIPT which recieves funding from Home Land Security, in its Terrorism Knowledge Base (www.tkb.org) says of the KKK: "Klan members often attempt to defend their lifestyle with violence and terrorist intimidation."

TKB says of the Aryan Nations: "The RAND Institute describes Aryan Nations as the 'First truely nation wide terrorist network.' " The RAND Institute (www.rand.org) is one of the leading think tanks in the United States, and contributes to MIPT, as well as speaking before US stated department committies on potential terrorist threats. The TKB states that the Aryan Nations train in "urban terrorism" and "guerilla warfare" and that they have a violent ideology to over throw the United States Government. --- Hence I would hazard to guess Marine Corps Security Forces still lists them (white supremacist) as a potential threat to attempt theft of a nuclear weapon.

MIPT was formed by the way after Murrah Federal Building bombing in Oklahoma City.

www.globalsecurity.org has something on Marine Corps Security Forces Battalion at the addy I provide below. It speaks of Fast Company also, which is in the Battalion, more "high speed," but I was not part of Fast Company. Fast Company deals more with moving weapons to subs and rapid responses like the SWAT teams in police forces.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1990/MWM.htm

"A second structural change resulting specifically from
a perceived need to counter the terrorist threat is the
formation of a Marine Corps Security Force Battalion on each
coast. These Battalions are tasked with providing the
specialized training required for Marines destined to Marine
Detachments aboard ships, as well as those Marines assigned
to guard vital Naval bases and installations in CONUS and
abroad. Additionally, these battalions are tasked with the
training and operational control of the Fleet Anti-terrorism
Support Team (FAST) Company. This is a 300 man unit which
is trained and equipped to rapidly deploy to any Naval Base,
ship, or installation at the direction of the fleet
commander. Their equipment and weapons are of the latest
design, and their training is both highly specialized and
rigorous. Included in their missions are hostage rescue and
recapture of our country's most sensitive materials and
facilities." - Excerpt from file located on globalsecurity.org


So if my ionformation is dated, it is wrong only in that sense: "dated." But not in the sense that the KKK nor other White Supremacist orginization where not considered a potential threat in nuclear theft or as terrorist when I was in in the early 90's.

Wikipedia.com encycolpedia, though admittedly not an authoritive source, lists the KKK as a terrorist orginization in it's "List of Terrorist Orginizations."
re: the above post
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 07:32:00
There is a fine line you are crossing here my friend. While I don't doubt that at one point the government, as well as other groups, considered the KKK a terrorist organization, I am convinced the US gov't never considered that the KKK would try to steal a nuke. I mean c'mon- those backwoods rednecks? What would they do with it? Pick the city with the most blacks and detonate it there? LOL!
who cares?
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 08:19:50
this site is brazzil.com not usa.com. take your overamplified rhetoric and find a forum that gives a s**t about your politics, theories and everything 911. i'm tired of it. it's like my hemmorhoids that keep flaring up.
why you flag waving a*****es think the rest of the world is so preoccupied with thoughts about your news is beyond me. i have news for you...we're just waiting to read the news when the great US empire implodes. then i will pick up a paper.
REF: who cares
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 09:42:53
Right on man!

This site is about Brazil...take your USA theories elsewhere a*****e.
Opinion...from the EU !
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 10:00:00

1) What happened in SP, cannot be compared with 9/11.
In SP, it was Brazilians in jail that ordered the bloodbath. None on the 9/11 terrorists were americans.

2) Quite strange that your government with Lula as President did not intervene for the killings of innocents citizens as loudly as when Jean Charles died in the tragedy that happened during the London bombing !!!!

Either Jean Charles true name was.... Jesus, or Lula and his government are truly a*****es !

But as usual, Lula changes his mind depending of the situation.
This just shows how HE has a contradictory opinion evfery time he opens his bad smell, stinky mouth and his dirty and unhealthy mind !

I cannot say brain, because he has NONE !

This guy did more harm than good for your country !
What a big joke
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 10:27:14
Please, the state has 32 million people, 150 people died and they think the Armagedon came to Sao Paulo.


Is funny to hear about people sitting at the DSL line in Sao Paulo having a cup of coffee with some "pasteis:" inside of their aparmment watching Tv with power and water still running.


Do you people in Brazil have any idea what war really means???


Do you have any idea what is to stay for 30 days inside of a hole under you house without food because someone outside is dropping bombs around your house?

I wIould love to see a Vietmese,bosnia,WW2 people from Europe hear you talking about your 5 days of "CIVIL WAR"


Do you ever hear about ETA in spain??

Did you ever hear about the crazy one in Ireland in the 70??

Did you know the people in London bombing were "ENGLISH"

did ever hear about Oklahoma from a American crazy """Mc VAine""

Did you ever hear about Israel problems??

Btrazilians have no idea what a war means

...
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 10:42:41
"Conspiracy theory boy, 23 year old girlfriend what are you like 50? I live in brasil and haven't gone out with a girl over 20."

23 year-old girlfriend but you haven't gone out with a girl over 20 eh? Like I said - mental giant!! LOL!! I would venture to say that aside from your 23 year-old girlfriend who isn't a day over 20 (who is certainly f**king younger, better looking men on the side and you know it) you probably haven't dated a girl over 15. We call that pedophilia - you call it normal. Loser!

Just so you retarded, inbred losers know who the guys from Conn & Wyoming are: Your f**king president and vice-president f**king idiots!! Why am I not surprised that none of you knew where either of them are from. How do so many American losers end up in Brazil?? Well better that you live there than in the US. There are already too many there - glad Brazil can take the surplus.
Whoaaaahhhh !!!!!
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 11:48:54
But from what everybody knows there are millions and millions of f**king Brazilians who are desesperate to get out of a f**king country named : BRAZIL !!!!!!

You even are ready to pay a lot of money to enter illegally in the USA, while no American is willing to pay to enter Brazil illegally !!!

And is Brazil not a country that is almost nbr 1 in the world for children sex ????????

In the inside of your country there are many brothels where you oblige 13/15 years children to have sex for 5 to 10 Reais !!!!!!!!

Your country BRAZIL is also the Nbr 1 for Internet pedophilia sex.

Just scroll the regular news on this site. There was an article on this subject several weeks ago !

To whom do you want to give lessons ?

Please clean your house first, more dirty there is not on this planet !

You better read more Brazilians news instead of watching 24 hours a day your TV soap operas.

Brazil is a shame to humanity !

...
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 11:57:05
The Extent of Child Abuse in America

By Larry Axmaker, EdD, PhD

More than 2.5 million cases of child abuse and neglect are reported in the U.S. each year. The true number is probably much larger as all types of child abuse and neglect tend to be underreported.

The American Academy of Pediatrics reports that:

* One in four girls and one in eight boys will be sexually abused before they reach the age of 18.

* One in 20 children is physically abused each year.

* Half of all child abuse falls into the category of neglect.

What is Abuse?

Physical abuse - inflicting physical injury by punching, beating, kicking, biting, burning, shaking, or otherwise physically harming a child

Child neglect - failure to provide a child's basic needs physically, emotionally, educationally, and medically

Sexual abuse - includes fondling children's genitals, intercourse, incest, rape, sodomy, exhibitionism, commercial exploitation through prostitution, or producing pornographic materials

Emotional abuse - acts or lack of attention by parents or other caregivers that results in behavioral, cognitive, emotional, or mental disorders
Recognizing Abuse and Neglect

It can be difficult to recognize abuse and even more difficult to determine what to do about it. Children are often reluctant to tell anybody if they are being abused because they think they will be blamed or not believed. Parents tend to overlook symptoms because it is uncomfortable to talk about.

The longer a child is abused or neglected, the deeper the trauma, and the less likely there will be a full emotional recovery.

Many behaviors can indicate possible abuse or neglect. In many cases the behaviors could be caused by other situations. This list doesn't guarantee that the cause is abuse, but be alert to unexplainable changes such as:

* Injuries, bruises, factures, or head or abdominal injuries that cannot be explained

* Fearful behavior such as nightmares, depression, or attempts to run away

* Abdominal pain, bedwetting, urinary tract infections, genital pain or bleeding, or sexually transmitted diseases

* Extreme sexual behaviors (acting out) that are inappropriate for the child's age

* Sudden drop in self-confidence

* Self destructive or suicidal behaviors

* Drug and alcohol abuse

* Headaches or stomachaches with no medical cause

* Failure to gain weight (usually in infants)

* Desperately affectionate behavior or need for approval

* Overeating and stealing food

When to Call for Help

If you suspect your child or another child has been abused or seriously neglected you should call your pediatrician or a child protective agency. Provide the information you have and they will follow-up.

Doctors are legally required to report cases of abuse. Child protection agencies can provide shelter and care for abused children. Mental health professionals are often involved to help children cope with and overcome past emotional trauma caused by abuse or neglect. Some communities have Child Abuse Hotlines - you can often call anonymously.

Sources:

1. Child Abuse and Neglect. American Academy of Pediatrics. 2000. Available online at: http://www.medem.com/ MedLB/article. Accessed January 20, 2006.

2. JAMA Patient Page: Protecting Our Children From Child Abuse. Journal of the American Medical Association. 1999. Available online at: http://www.medem.com/ medlb/article_detaillb.cfm. Accessed January 20, 2006.
Beazilian Midia????
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 12:04:03
Only a idiot would pay attention to the Brazilian "bias" Midia


Brazilian midia loves to drop some gasoline at a problem when they see some fire.

They love to post thing that they hear from someone from this place or that place .

Low level Jornalism.

A low class midia full of people with Bias agenda


re: CTB
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 12:12:01
conspiracy theory boy if you read all the posts, it was already stated that these two were dick and bush. Now please as asked for before give us support for your conspiracy theory.
re: Whoaaaahhhh !!!!!
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 12:15:49
quote: Your country BRAZIL is also the Nbr 1 for Internet pedophilia sex.

Just scroll the regular news on this site. There was an article on this subject several weeks ago



I'm not sure of that. Can you give any number or official source, or at least show the said article?
tks
Ref: What a big joke
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 13:46:04
EU moron...who is comparing what happened in Sao Paulo to other wars???????
Give me a break!
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 13:53:54
conspiracy theory boy if you read all the posts, it was already stated that these two were dick and bush. Now please as asked for before give us support for your conspiracy theory.

And you offer proof that guys with absolutely no time flying a 757 became Chuck Yeager on 9/11. You tell us how that was possible and I'll offer my proof. See the problem is you f**king idiots are so brainwashed that if CNN tells you the official story is true then it must be. Reality is that the story is so full of holes that it is incumbent upon you to provide proof. If you don't know what those holes are then your dumbass just hasn't been paying attention. BTW did you see a 757 in those recently released clips?? I didn't and neither did anyone else . . But I'm sure you were able to make one out right? Laughable! SO how much research did it take for you to find out that Bush wasn't born in Texas moron - just curious?
...
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 15:02:35
Quote:

"There is a fine line you are crossing here my friend. While I don't doubt that at one point the government, as well as other groups, considered the KKK a terrorist organization, I am convinced the US gov't never considered that the KKK would try to steal a nuke. I mean c'mon- those backwoods rednecks? What would they do with it? Pick the city with the most blacks and detonate it there? LOL!"


Reply:

I cede you have a valid point about the KKK being unlikely *to use* a nuke in inside the United States. You also have a point that modern KKK would be unlikely to attempt theft of a nuclear weapon as oppossed to say Al Qaida. That I don't deny. Nor would I or have attempted to infer that was the case.

However you are missing something here, there are millions of orginizations in the United States and around the world. I can only *assume* when Federal or private security firms assess what orginizations are they deem of higher risk to steal a nuclear weapon they would place the American KKK above the United States Boy Scouts asssociation, or a cancer surviors network, or Alcoholics Anonymous.

When tasked with the mission of protection of nuclear weapons those overseeing the entire mission scope do not have the luxury of laughing and discounting white supremacist orginizations like the KKK from attempting theft.

There is a particular phrase that is - or at least was often used when I was in - it was "need to know" or rather "on a need to know basis."

As security personel we did not need to know if there was ever actually any nuclear weapons aboard ship or at a particular facility. That was not deemed "need to know information" for us.

However when searching the person(s) or vechicles of private contractors, if by chance we would for some reason see a white supremacist tattoo on some area of their body that became exposed, this could green light us to a possibility that the person or person(s) trying to gain access to the compound are there for dubious reasons. In this sense Security Forces School may have charged to train us to look out for white supremacist like the KKK, being deemed "need to know" information.

My primary MOS was 0311 (basic rifleman - a grunt in otherwords), but I had a secondary MOS, it was 8151 (if my memory serves me correct: the # classification that is) which is Security Forces. I went to Security Forces school after I finished the School of Infantry (SOI). I would eventually get posted at two different duty stations while In Security Forces. I'm very pleased in the training I recieved because not only did I get trained well in the pistol and shotgun, but I also learned to think more in a security mindset I guess you could say. For instance in Security Forces we were taught to consider anyone who sympatizes with a terrorist group as one element in that pyramid of network. (whether one believes that is just or not that's how we were taught to think. - basicly think more broadly)

The reason I bring that up is because, while it was never "need to know information" for me to know the conjectures of the FBI, I will role the dice and say - in answer to your question why would and what would the KKK do with a stolen nuke? - *use* of a nuclear weapon does not have to be a motivation in theft. If one can have bargining power by taking 1 or 10 people hostage, one can imagine the bargining power one holds if they aquire and hold a nuclear weapon "hostage" and claiming to have the ability to detonate it. There exists also the potential of orginizations hostel to the United States Government (such as white supremacist groups) being *contracted* by another group to steal and deliver a nuclear weapon.


This is all getting off topic and that's going to be the last I'm posting the US and KKK and Security Forces in this thread.

My orgininal point in the beginning was just that the PCC in my opinion could be justly considered a terrorist orginization in Brazil. Having said that, I can only imagine the barginning power the PCC would have and the titanic sink the Brazilian stock market and Brazilian real would have, if the PCC ever aquired a nuclear weapon of any size and merely *threatened* its use.
Brazil and pedophilia !
written by Guest, 2006-05-21 16:17:44